“We cannot remain part of an empire where our language, our culture, our history, and our peoples will be destroyed”
During the protracted war, Ukrainians are pinning their hopes on a new disintegration of Russia, similar to the one that occurred at the beginning and end of the 20th century. Among the many enslaved people in Russia, Bashkortostan is considered one of the leaders of the Idel-Ural (Volga-Ural) region, not only in terms of economic indicators but also in terms of the level of national consciousness. As Bashkirs, do these hopes seem unfounded to you? Why?
Yes, it is not without reason. Bashkir identity remains very strong, despite the attempts of Russia and its collaborators, such as the head of the republic, Radiy Khabirov and company, to intimidate the people. Bashkortostan has great potential for struggle and victory. Mass protests near Mount Kushtau and Baymak have demonstrated that the people can instantly gather and protest. I am confident in my people.
Today, only national republics have the power to overthrow Russian power. I hope other states will follow Ukraine’s example and support national movements in their struggle for independence from the Russian Empire. Your past is our future, the path you have taken to independence and democracy is one we must also take in the future.
One of the largest protests in the Russian Federation since the beginning of its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, is Baymak, Republic of Bashkortostan, 15 January 2024
Are the opinions of the United States and Europe changing on the main question for you: if the empire begins to collapse, who should be supported – a united and indivisible Russia or democratic processes in the national republics that are part of it?
The leaders of the US Democratic Party have always supported a united and indivisible Russia and have never considered the collapse of the USSR and Russia as a possible development. You remember that Republican George Bush Sr. also suffered from this, on the eve of the collapse of the USSR when he came to Kyiv and persuaded the Verkhovna Rada not to leave the empire. That speech by Bush is still called “Kyiv chicken”. If the Democrats had won in November 2024, I would know for sure how they would behave. As for Republican Trump, now few people can predict his actions towards Russia, because he is a very unpredictable person.
Unfortunately, the lobby of “good Russians” is very strong in America and Europe: President Biden met with Navalny, and her associates run around the high offices of American congressmen and representatives of European governments.
Berlin march of Russian political emigrants
Of course, unlike the “good Russians,” the Bashkirs or Tatars do not have any lobby. We cannot convey to the leaders in the West our opinion about the possibility of the collapse of Russia, which would be the best option for peace and democracy. Because the nations who are part of this non-federation have the right to a separate existence, outside the borders of Russia. We cannot remain part of an empire where our language, our culture, history and our people will be destroyed. We also cannot join the Russian liberal opposition, because in the beautiful Russia of the future, there is no place for our languages and our problems.
“Russia is doing everything to make national languages die”
By the way, about languages. In 2017, Putin issued a decree that allowed the national republics of Russia not to teach the languages of indigenous nations. Tatarstan and Bashkortostan protested against this. The profession of a Bashkir language teacher has become unpromising. What is the current situation in schools in Bashkortostan?
Seven years ago, Russia abolished the study of indigenous languages. Learning Russian is mandatory but learning Bashkir is not. Both Tatarstan and Bashkortostan protested very strongly against this law. The native languages of indigenous people were expelled from schools. Now Russian is officially called the native language. Of course, this leads to the complete disappearance of Bashkir. Russia is doing everything to ensure that national languages die out. More recently, in the 60s and 70s, all subjects were taught in Bashkir in schools and universities in Bashkortostan. Now they say that the Bashkir language has no educational potential. It has! There are personnel who can work directly in Bashkir and English, bypassing Russian.
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Language is not a rug that can be put in a box and stored. Language is a living organism that must grow, develop, and be supplemented. You can’t last long with a common language, literary language will disappear – there will be no one to write works and, most importantly, there will be no one to read it.
What language do you speak in your family?
My daughter was born in America, and from an early age she was brought up in an environment where I speak Bashkir and my father speaks English. At first, the child ignored questions in Bashkir or answered in English. But then we overcame this by setting a condition: we would go to Bashkortostan, where the grandmother speaks only Bashkir and does not know English. And here we are in Bashkortostan. She speaks Bashkir with my mother, sisters and brothers. But on the street in the village, while meeting children, she finds out that they do not speak Bashkir! A 5-year-old child cries: I have no one to play with because no one speaks Bashkir! It was painful to look at the child’s tears and realize, that I “deceived” her by saying that Bashkir is spoken in Bashkortostan. But now all that has passed: she speaks Bashkir perfectly and considers herself an American Bashkir.
Tell us about yourself and your family.
I was born in a remote village in Bashkortostan and graduated from Rami Garipov boarding school No. 1 in Ufa. We started learning Russian in the second grade, and before that, we didn’t know Russian at all. At that time, television hadn’t yet played its sinister Russifying role. Children watched it voraciously for several hours a week: “Visiting Fairy Tales,” cartoons. We spent our childhood outside playing various games. Later, I entered the Bashkir Republican Gymnasium, where there was quite a bit of competition and strict selection with exams.
In my youth, I graduated from the Tatar Journalism Department of Kazan State University and worked in Kazan for a long time. All my conscious life I have been fighting for my identity, my language and my culture. The understanding that Bashkortostan should become an independent state came to me at school. However, some began to understand this only after the start of the full-scale war against Ukraine.
Then I became a language activist and remained so, even when I lived in Kazan, at the centre of the national liberation struggle of the Tatar people. In the 90s, the national liberation movement in Tatarstan, unlike Bashkortostan, was very strong. I understood that a free Tatarstan would mean independence for Bashkortostan as well.
Later, I got married and moved to America. I have two children: my son is studying biochemistry in college because he wants to become a doctor. My daughter is in high school. Both of them are fluent in Bashkir. My son has become a Bashkir nationalist. I often see angry posts in English about Russian politics on his Instagram page. He writes a lot about Bashkirs and Bashkir music. This makes me very happy, because my son grew up here, in America.
After moving to America, I immediately started looking for Tatars and Bashkirs in Los Angeles. I found them, got to know them, and a couple of years later became the leader of the local diaspora. Here I managed to unite these two peoples, because in general, they act alone, which fits perfectly into Moscow’s policy. In some cities, Bashkirs do not come to Tatars’ actions, and in others, the opposite. Only in Los Angeles did we manage to unite, and now it is difficult to imagine that someone would be able to separate us.
My mother and relatives remained in Russia. I keep in touch with my mother, but I can’t go, because back in 2022 I decided that I wouldn’t change my passport and wouldn’t go to Russia until it stopped fighting with Ukraine. I don’t communicate with my relatives because we have different views.
In one interview, a young Bashkort held captive in Ukraine says that he is the only one of several compatriots who knows and understands the Bashkir language. According to your predictions, if the situation does not change, how long will your native language survive?
Even 20 years ago, I understood that we, Bashkorts, are a minority and we are threatened with the disappearance of both the people and the language. Now it has reached a new level – the language is being destroyed without any shame or remorse. At the same time, in the war in Ukraine, the people themselves are being destroyed.
Indigenous nations of Russia are dying out due to the war in Ukraine
This situation reminds me of an incident. Once, my family and I went on vacation to Mexico. On the way, the bus stopped for an authentic lunch. Indians walked between the tables – a man and a woman, singing and dancing. Joyful tourists began to take photos and videos of this performance, and I cried. I just imagined my people, the Bashkirs, whom Russia is trying to turn into the same puppet, fake people that will entertain Moscow tourists who will drink and eat at this time.
By the way, in the same interview, the 35-year-old prisoner says that Bashkortostan will not gain independence in his lifetime. Can we say that the 1.5 million people have already resigned themselves?
Yes, this young man’s name is Shamil. Maybe that’s what they think in Bashkortostan, or maybe Shamil, who has been in a Ukrainian camp since the beginning of the year, simply doesn’t have enough information. I believe that we will gain independence during my lifetime. I understand that this is very optimistic, but I believe in it. And not only do I believe, I fight because I understand that I have to make my contribution to Bashkortostan gaining independence. After all, these prisoners have families with 4-6 children who are waiting for their parents to return.
The Bashkort company is fighting in the war against Putin’s troops. Bashkirs from my hometown in the Cherkasy region have been fighting against Russia since 2014 with small breaks. There are examples. How much time will it take for this movement to grow into a mass one?
I have heard of the Bashkort company, but I am not familiar with the guys. As for the Bashkir people, I must admit that they are still poisoned by Moscow’s fascist ideology. This will pass with the onset of the economic collapse of the empire. Already now, prices are rising rapidly in Ufa and throughout Bashkortostan, people are tired of the war, and many do not want to fight and dream of it ending as soon as possible. For the people to see the light, there must be a push, a kick, a magic pendulum, like those that were during the protests near Mount Kushtau and in Baymak. No one can predict how much time it will take: maybe a week, maybe 10 years.
According to Ukrainian researcher Oleksiy Kopytko, as of 18 November, Bashkortostan is the leader among Russian regions in terms of the number of official deaths in this war — 3,482 killed. Half of the names of the dead are Bashkir and Tatar. Why are the Bashkirs going to fight for Putin? Is it thanks to the Kremlin puppet, the so-called head of the republic, the corrupt Radiy Khabirov? Or are there other reasons?
There is a long-standing Russian tradition — young people can’t find work in the national periphery. Even before the full-scale invasion, I talked to people from the Baymatsky district, where over 80% of the population is Bashkir. Well, even then, there were almost no men in the villages of Bashkortostan — they went to work in Siberia and worked in the oil and gas industry for months. Even before the war, Radiy Khabirov promised to bring them all home. And he truly does this, but in coffins. Previously, men lost their health while earning money, and now they are simply being physically destroyed in the war in Ukraine. Another reason is that for decades, the Russian “victory mentality” has been imposed. Under its influence, Bashkir men also want to become “heroes.” And, finally, the Turkic brotherhood among people who are not interested in politics or economics and are ready to go to war simply because of the request of the village head. It hurt me when they sent the Sibay city’s entire philharmonic orchestra to war like that — and these men sang and danced at the train station as if they were going to fight against some invaders. I cried when I saw these shots. I wrote and scolded them, but it was all in vain. One dancer has already died. Part of the blame must also be placed on Radiy Khabirov because few Bashkirs go to war of their own free will — they are persuaded or mobilized.
I am very sorry and ashamed that many Bashkirs are fighting and dying in Ukraine. Today I read that my colleague from television, with whom we studied together at the Bashkir gymnasium, signed a contract with the Russian army. A famous actress too. Supposedly educated and intelligent people, but they do this.
“We will return with victory,” they say.
This just makes me sick. When I was in Ukraine to interview Bashkir prisoners of war, I introduced myself to the Ukrainians as a Kazakh journalist, it was so embarrassing.
In the modern history of Bashkortostan, there is an episode that is considered a victory of national forces. We are talking about the protests of the Bashkirs near the shikhan (lone mountain) of Kushtau. Attempts by the Russian capital to develop limestone on Mount Kushtau provoked several days of protests by the Bashkirs. Putin had to intervene in the conflict and listen to the protesters. From now on, the Bashkirs will celebrate this victory every year. Is this the first stone of a future national triumph or just a random episode?
It must be admitted that not only Bashkirs, but also Tatars, Chuvashs, and even Russians protested near Shikhan Kushtau. This was already an example of a real political nation. In Baymak, there were only Bashkirs.
Radiy Khabirov personally took revenge on the organizer of the protests, Fail Alsynov: he sent him to prison for four years for allegedly inciting inter-ethnic hatred. Even the prosecutor asked not for prison, but for a settlement. Is this an attempt to intimidate the people?
This was an attempt to destroy the Bashkir national movement in the person of Fail Alsynov, whom the Bashkir people love and respect. However, I think this was a temporary success for Khabirov. But the detention of 80 people during the trial of Alsynov was really an attempt to intimidate the people, primarily their conscious part.
In 1991, over 90% of Ukraine’s population voted for independence, although two years before that, supporters of independence would have barely reached 10–20%. The situation in Bashkortostan resembles the Ukrainian one in the second half of the 1980s. What, in your opinion, can turn the situation around? What is the reason for Koshchei’s death?
I hope for the economy. If Russia experiences another economic collapse, the people will reach their limit and take to the streets, as happened during the overthrow of the Romanov monarchy, when there was no bread in the shops. I really do not want a war between nations to break out during the collapse of the empire. After all, in Bashkortostan, there are almost three identical national groups: Russians, Bashkirs and Tatars. We need another bloodless collapse of the empire like the one that happened in 1991. We still have to pay Ukraine reparations for lost lives and destroyed property. And I do not hide the fact that we must help Ukraine overcome the consequences of the war because, after the collapse of Russia, this will also be our responsibility, the national republics.
In Ukraine in 1991, about 70% of the population was Ukrainian. Now, according to official data, Bashkirs in Bashkortostan make up only 31%. Can we dream of independence in such a state of affairs?
I usually give the example of Kazakhstan, where Kazakhs were a minority in 1991, which did not prevent them from turning the situation around 30 years later. Some Russians left, the Germans left, and the Kazakhs stayed. Since Muslim families have many children, the situation quickly levelled off. Now in Bashkortostan, it is not uncommon for a young family to have 6–7 children, and Kazakh history may well repeat itself. Of course, sitting idly by, because there are only a few of us, there will be no one. We in Bashkortostan must form a political nation together with the Tatars. Then we will be able to turn the situation around and count on success because the Russians will remain in the minority. Although there are different people among them. Some support the independence of Bashkortostan, and others will not accept the collapse of Russia. Therefore, we need to create a political nation regardless of how many Bashkirs there are.
During their history, the Bashkirs resisted the invasion of Genghis Khan and his successors for 14 years. The people rebelled against the Russian Empire many times. In 1918, Bashkortostan had its own national army. Can we now say that history is beginning a new cycle?
Yes, indeed, history can repeat itself. My comrades and I now remember Lenin, who lived abroad and prepared a revolution. Our national leader in 1917–1920, Zaki Valedi, also worked in Bashkortostan, until he had to flee. However, he lived his entire conscious life in Bashkortostan: he wrote books and met in Germany with Bashkortostan prisoners of war during World War II. We do approximately the same work. That is, we repeat this history, fall into despair, and find the strength to get up and pull this cart further. I truly hope that when this cycle begins again, it will reach its logical conclusion – the independence of Bashkortostan and its own army. Reason refuses to believe that today’s Russia will survive, will be preserved and will continue to threaten its neighbours and the whole world.
Inyazor (head) of the Erzya people Syres Bolyaen (Olexander Bolkin) once said that Ukraine will be the reference point and centre of gravity for the nations who will free themselves from the shackles of Russian imperialism. It seems to me that Kazakhstan and Turkey are still closer to the Turkic nations. What do you think?
Of course, we have high hopes for Kazakhstan, but we have little faith in Turkey, which is now demonstrating friendship with Putin. A long time ago, even before the war in Donbas, a Turkish friend told me in Los Angeles that each country has its own Putin: Russia has its own, and Turkey has its own. Therefore, there is no hope for Turkey, but there is hope for Kazakhstan. But now only Ukraine supports us. In the future, when we become an independent country, we will definitely focus on Ukraine. There is more democracy here than in Kazakhstan or Turkey.
Yuriy Stryhun, journalist
Lb.ua
