One of them is Erzya, a Finno-Ugric people, whose inhabitants live in the territory of modern Russia and are fighting for their own self-determination. Russian propaganda not only suppresses the independence movements of the Erzians, but also denies the existence of this people as a separate people.
Inyazor, or the chief elder of the Erzians, is Syres Bolyaen, also known as Oleksandr Bolkin. He is also a Ukrainian public figure, poet and translator, head of the Erzya society in Ukraine “Ěrzäń val” (“Erzäńske slovo”) and co-founder of the public movement “Free Idel-Ural”.
In an interview with Olesya Kotubey, Sires Bolyaen talked about the current situation of the protest movements of enslaved peoples, their governments in exile, the likelihood of Russia’s collapse, and the attitude of Ukraine, the West, and the “Russian opposition” to the issue of Russia’s disintegration.
What peoples are called enslaved
What peoples are called enslaved? In particular, regarding the enslaved peoples on the territory of Russia – what is their number?
According to the results of the (I hope, the last) Moscow census, more than 190 peoples were counted. And each of them can be called enslaved. And the one who calls himself “Russian” too. For enslaved are those who live not of their own will, just like cattle enslaved by man.
Not everyone knows how Russia “mastered” these lands – in what way did it happen, what policies did the Russians implement? Do the enslaved peoples remember the crimes that the Russians committed on their territory? Can we call the violence committed by Russia during the period of “conquest” of ethnic peoples genocide?
The methods of “development” or, as they say, “collection of lands” have not changed since the time of the Horde, they have only improved. Moscow uses all these “methods” today in Ukraine. Murder, rape, intimidation, luring, bribery… Muscovite! The whole diabolical assortment.
Do people remember Moscow’s crimes? Some of the representatives – yes. Most either do not remember or are afraid to even think about it. The memory of these crimes is covered with a thick layer of manure “history of the Russian state”. There is no history of the Tatars, Bashkorts, the history of the Chuvash, Udmurts, Erzians is not studied… There is only one version in the form of a fairy tale about the history of the Moscow state, and having your own opinion, according to modern Moscow legislation, is a crime.
Protest of enslaved peoples
Are there currently protest moods among enslaved peoples on the territory of Russia, how can they be generally characterized? Do they all want independence/autonomy? What is the situation of the Erzya people, whose representative you are? I know that this is one of the most politicized national movements.
Yes, but they are weak. At the same time, it is necessary to take into account the conditions created by Moscow, the long-term nature of these conditions, and the fact that the process of changing consciousness is not linear. Everything can change very quickly.
Does everyone want independence? No. There is no such thing as “everyone strives”. Is everyone in Ukraine today striving for Victory? Does everyone understand what the Victory of Ukraine is?
Among Erzians, according to our ideas, today somewhere around 15-18% do not support Moscow’s policy. Indeed, some experts believe that the national movement of the Erzya people is the most active among the Finno-Hungarian peoples. But taking into account that the level of activity in other nations is close to zero, it is hardly possible to stop there.
Erzyan has “Regulations on Elections and Work of Erzyan Representative Bodies”, which was approved by Atyan Ezy (Council of Elders), a congress was held where “Regulations on Coat of Arms and Anthem” and “Regulations on Territory and Borders of Erzyan Mastor (Countries Erzyan)”. The Resolution of the Congress was adopted, which clearly defined that the goal of the Erzyan national movement is to create its own independent state. Yes, there are not many compatriots who support our movement, so the main task of the Erzyan movement today is to increase their number.
As far as I know, you are the Inyazor of the Erzyan people. Tell us about your activities – how do you maintain contacts with the protest movement?
Yes, I am Inyazor, one of the members of Atyan Ezyem (Council of Elders), which leads the same protest movement. Regarding the question of how communication is maintained in the middle of the protest movement, given the development of modern technologies, this is not very difficult to do, especially among those members who live in the free world. Communication within the borders of Muscovy (we are talking about modern Russia, – ed.) has features that, agree, should not be discussed in our interview…
Governments in exile
Of course. About governments in exile: which of the national movements of enslaved peoples have them and how active and influential are these governments? Who do they get support from?
Today we can talk about the “Government of independent Tatarstan”, which is headed by Rafis Kashapov and several governments of the Republic of Ichkeria. Unfortunately, there are internal contradictions between them that hinder the work. I hope that they will find a common language.
We are not creating a government in exile, because we have the Council of Elders, there is Inyazor (Chief Elder), there are representatives of Inyazor in the regions. We believe that the effectiveness of our work does not depend on what we call our movement. In any case, both governments and our representative bodies have an influence on the active part of the movements, which cannot be said about the influence on the peoples living within the borders of Muscovy. But, we are preparing for that “Time Ch”. After the complete collapse of the Moscow control system, the leading movements will be those who have a clear idea of what to do next.
So far, there is no support from anyone. The Erzyan movement works on a volunteer basis, as much as there is enough strength, time, people and money.
Attitude of Ukraine
How does official Ukraine treat enslaved peoples? We know that Ukraine is taking steps: the inter-factional association “For a Free Caucasus” was created in the Verkhovna Rada , Ukraine recognized Ichkeria , President Zelenskyi recorded an address to the peoples of the Caucasus, Siberia and the indigenous peoples of the Russian Federation, the memorial plaque to Imam Shamil is mentioned.
But researcher Pavlo Podobed said: “If Bandera were alive, he would have created media for enslaved peoples.” In your opinion, what further steps would be appropriate for Ukraine?
I agree with Pavel! Let’s remember that in the fall of 1943, the OUN held the First Conference of the Enslaved Peoples of Eastern Europe and Asia ! During the war, in the occupied territory, in Volyn in the Rivne district. It was “just in time”! It was not only a help to enslaved peoples, it was a necessity. The destruction of the Moscow State and the creation of independent, free countries was, and remains, a mandatory condition for the Victory of Ukraine! Ukrainian nationalists understood this even then! Do they understand now? Nationalists – yes! Power – no!
A very powerful step was when the Verkhovna Rada of the eighth convocation adopted the Resolution on the Appeal of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine to the United Nations, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, and the national parliaments of the countries of the world regarding the condemnation of the violation of the rights of indigenous peoples in the Russian Federation. It provided examples of persecution, suggested and anticipated further actions in this direction. Unfortunately, they did not receive development.
Regarding Ichkeria, I have to correct you a little. Ukraine did not recognize the independence of Ichkeria. Ukraine recognized Ichkeria as occupied territory. The bas-relief of Imam Shamil was opened a long time ago, and the current authorities have nothing to do with it.
For a long time, I have been observing the activities of Pavlo Podobed as an employee of the Institute of National Memory of Ukraine, a talented political scientist, and an analyst at the “Prometheus” Security Environment Research Center. He is a person with a sharp mind and the gift of strategic state thinking.
He is right, as Ukrainian nationalists were right back in 1943. The victory of Ukraine is not simply in the destruction of the enemy, but in the creation of independent states with the direct participation of Ukraine. This is what makes it an influential, leading country from the Xiang to the Bering Strait, and therefore authoritative from Sakhalin to the Atlantic! No European country can do that, because it is the historical mission of Ukraine. Without it, we cannot win!
This requires active offensive actions on the informational and ideological front. In my opinion, today’s official government is not taking anything but formal steps in this direction. One gets the impression that she is not interested in the disintegration of the Russian Federation.
What exactly is not done:
- 24-hour broadcasting in the languages of the peoples of Muscovy (including Moscow and Ukrainian);
- helping and provoking national liberation movements;
- creation of technical support centers for these movements: informational, technical, material, financial;
- help in creating attractive models of future republics.
I believe that Ukraine has specialists who will complete this list of actions better than me, the question is solely about political will.
Therefore, the speech-address of the President of Ukraine and the creation of an inter-factional association in the Verkhovna Rada is a good thing. Now imagine if, instead of weapons, money, military exercises, exchange of intelligence, sanctions against the Russian Federation, joint international and diplomatic measures, the USA and the EU would say to Ukraine: “The heads of the EU member states recorded a video message in support of Ukraine. We opened a bas-relief in honor of Simon Petliura in Paris and created an inter-factional group in the European Parliament “No Genocide of Ukrainians!” And what else could we do for Ukraine? Well, let’s be realistic!”
Probably, Ukrainians would expect something else, right? Therefore, when I hear that Ukraine supports enslaved nations in the Russian Federation – yes, of course, there are conversations on this topic, we have been saying for a long time that Ukraine supports someone. However, this is not at all something that can help our people today.
“Collective action” and enslaved peoples
How does the collective measure treat the issue of the enslaved peoples of Russia, does it interact, or consider possible scenarios? Is there an awareness of this issue in Europe and the United States?
I don’t see a “collective measure”. There are individual countries and movements that have very different views on all of this. Views are often polar. Here, too, Ukraine can and should play a leading role as a leader of public political opinion. Although it is more correct to call this war a European war, it is being waged by Ukraine. For the whole of Europe, for the whole world!
Interaction with the “Russian opposition”
What we call the “Russian opposition” — how do they treat the issues of enslaved peoples? Is there mutual understanding between them in the vision of the future of Russia, or, roughly speaking, can we call the opposition Russians also imperialists who do not want the division of the Russian Federation? Also, do this so-called opposition include representatives of enslaved peoples and do they shape/have influence on the future of Russia?
There is no “Russian opposition”! There is a “spare airfield” of a downed plane called “Russian Empire”. All these “oppositionists” will very quickly agree on a common idea of salvation, or the revival of “Russia”. Yes, these are all the same imperials, only, as they say, “with a human face.” It is not easier for Ukrainians or Erzians.
As for the participation of representatives of enslaved peoples in the activities of the “Russian opposition” — yes, they participate, sometimes realizing that this distances their peoples from independence. Besides, “Russian” is not an ethnic identity. They are all “representatives of enslaved peoples” to some extent. The saviors of the “Russian world” need these now. That is why there are now many projects with attractive names that cry out for the liberation of peoples. Moreover, they are created by those who “saved Russia” yesterday!
For example, in the fall of 2022, a new movement “For a Free Russia” is being created in Turkey. And already in May of this year, the same founders created the “Union of Peoples for Liberation”. On February 19, 2022, the social movement “For a free Russia!” was founded in Bulgaria. The founders are citizens of Russia and among them is a representative of the Russian “opposition” Ilya Ponomaryev. And already after the start of full-scale Russian aggression, he actively works on platforms created to discuss the ways of decolonization of the Russian Federation.
What is it for them? The answer is very simple – they are preparing an argument in favor of preserving Muscovy under a different name, with an attractive program. How?
Therefore, they will continue to create various organizations that use the rhetoric of the decolonizers to do the opposite. It is very easy to recognize them: they appear out of nowhere, rapid development, informational and financial support of unknown origin, invitations to their platforms of “good Russians”, joint discussions and projects, preparation for negotiations where one side is “for beautiful Russia” and the other – “from enslaved peoples”, shows a willingness to discuss it and accept it “on its own terms” (1992 sample).
The same associations will be created to discredit national liberation movements. Such groups will include representatives of movements that preach Nazism and other “values” that are very far from the principles and values of the civilized world. Such “people-mines” will join healthy national liberation movements in order to explode at some point and make this movement “unshakeable”.
There is a very big game going on, in which the KGB-FSB ate the dog, and the representatives of the liberation movements lack experience, it is sometimes difficult for them to understand this game.
The probability of the collapse of Russia
One of the scenarios for the end of the war outlined by historians and political scientists is the probable collapse of Russia. Is there a conversation about this within the communities of enslaved peoples? What will it look like if Russia is disintegrated and the peoples are decolonized? What are the likely consequences of this scenario for the world?
I think this is the most likely scenario. I have high hopes for this, because other scenarios will mean the victory of Muscovy. The consequences of this will be more catastrophic for Ukraine, Europe and the world than the consequences of the world not being able to stop two dictators at the end of the 1930s. There is an excellent article about this “dark alternative” by Mykhailo Honchar, President of the Center for Global Studies “Strategy XXI” entitled “What will happen in Europe and the world if Russia wins.” I strongly advise you to read it as determined to preserve Muscovy. It was published in the “Mirror of the Week” in January 2023 .
Therefore, among the enslaved peoples, they are waiting for the collapse of Russia. This is unequivocally stated in the Resolution of the Erzyan Congress, in the “Free Idel-Ural” program, and the members of the League of Free Nations speak about it. Today, no one knows exactly how the situation will develop, in what sequence and on what territories new states will be created. The collapse of Russia is a systemic political crisis, it is not about structural changes. In this process of bifurcation, coincidences will play a very big role and… “everything can happen”! That is why we call for the controlled disintegration of the Russian Federation with the participation of the world community as a result of Russia’s unconditional defeat. Otherwise, read the article by the honorable Mr. Mykhailo Honchar.
Finally, we see that over the years of its existence, Russia has not nurtured an active layer of civil society that is capable of any tangible protest. Why can we talk about the fact that it is in the enslaved peoples of Russia? What exactly allowed some of these citizens not to assimilate with the Russian mass?
It’s not that she “didn’t nurture”! She destroyed this active layer that appeared in the early nineties. But not to the end, otherwise there would be no interview. I am Inyazor, Chief Elder Atyan Ezyem (Council of Elders) of the Erzyan people, which held its Congress in the fall of that year, I mentioned the Free Idel-Ural, the League of Free Nations… It was done by the same people, the same “active stratum “. We are! We work!
Why didn’t everyone assimilate? It’s not evening yet. In the case of the preservation of Russia, this quite realistically threatens the existence of our peoples.
But I am sure that it will not be like that. People like Dorzho Dugarov, Rafis Kashapov, Ruslan Gabbasov, Fauzia Bayramova, too many to list, appear among us as a result of a completely natural process of flourishing and improvement of humanity. Like flowers through the asphalt! They “sprout” because our peoples demand it!
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