“Independence is the long-standing dream of the Bashkir people,” – Ruslan Gabbasov

The Bashkirs waged war against Russia for about 200 years

Ruslan, in Ukraine little is known about Bashkortostan, please tell us about your country.

Bashkortostan is located in the southern Urals. It is located simultaneously in Europe and Asia. In terms of territory, which is 146 thousand square meters. km, our country is larger, for example, than Lithuania or other Baltic countries.

4 million people live in Bashkortostan, representing three large ethnic groups: Russians, Bashkirs and Tatars. Russians make up 36% of the population, Bashkirs in the country 29.5% (1 million 200 thousand), followed by Tatars – 21% of the population of the republic. However, the total number of Muslims and Turks in the country is more than 50%.
We also have about 100 thousand Chuvash, 100 thousand Mari and other peoples: Udmurts, Mordovians. The Bashkirs are today the fourth largest people in Russia after the Russians, Tatars and Ukrainians.

In Russia, the two nations that most often rebelled were the Bashkirs and the Chechens. The Bashkirs waged war against Russia for about 200 years. These two nations also have the least number of marriages with Russians.

You are now in Lithuania and have asked for political asylum. Please tell us how the Russian authorities persecute you and other Bashkir national activists?

Let me start with the fact that in general the Bashkir national movement has always been strong. We have been part of Russia for almost half a thousand years. Since 1554, part of our people voluntarily entered Russia, at that time the Moscow state, and the majority were conquered by it. However, they present it to us as if all our people voluntarily took this step. A short time after the agreement was signed with the Moscow state, it was violated.

According to the agreement, we had to guard the southern borders of Russia, participate in all wars and pay a small symbolic yasak (tax). In return, the Moscow state had to provide us with complete self-government, not take our lands, and not interfere with our religion.
However, after several decades, the Moscow state began to violate the agreement: it tried to take away our lands and Christianize the Bashkirs, which caused an uprising. From that time on, we can say that the Bashkir national movement began. For more than 200 years, the Bashkirs raised many uprisings of various types: over land, religion, then the struggle for freedom began. By that time, Moscow had already begun to conquer Siberia, cut us off from the Kazakhs, and we found ourselves completely inside Russia.

Subsequently, let’s say, the second stage of our national movement began. This is 1917, when Akhmet Zaki Validi (leader of the Bashkir national liberation movement) and his comrades founded the first Bashkir Republic. This is one of the first national republics among today’s national republics of Russia. This is the only national republic that was created by the people themselves, while all other republics were created by decree of the Soviet government. The Bashkir government concluded an agreement with the Soviet government according to which the Soviets recognized our republic.

As a union republic?

At that time there was no Soviet Union yet. The RSFSR (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) was just being formed. According to the agreement of 1919, we were recognized as an independent republic within the Soviet state and a year later they began to form other republics (Tatar, Chuvash, etc.) by decree of the Council of People’s Commissars. However, the second agreement with Russia was also violated.

There was an agreement according to which our government had additional powers in the sphere of economics, politics, and the armed forces; we had an army of 10-12 thousand people. In principle, it was only because of this army that an agreement was concluded so that the Bashkir army would go over to the side of the Soviet regime. Before that, it fought on the side of the Whites (the movement to liberate Russia from the Bolsheviks), and went over to the side of the Soviet regime because Kolchak (the leader of the Whites) denied all nations the right to self-determination and ordered the dissolution of all national governments. This forced us to enter into an alliance with the Bolsheviks. They, in turn, acted wisely by recognizing us, and then occupied us once again.

The third stage of the national movement begins in 1991, when Murtaza Rakhimov (the first president of Bashkortostan), under the influence of national forces, declared sovereignty and the third agreement with Russia was signed. True, it was also “safely” violated 10 years later, when all our rights, sovereignty, and the Constitution were curtailed. Now the Bashkir language is not studied compulsorily, but optionally.

Bashkir is the state language, it seems to be considered equal to Russian, but the Russian language is studied 5 hours a week, and Bashkir 1 hour, and then in order to study it, parents must write the appropriate application. I will answer the question of why I left. We had an organization “Kuk Bure” (“Heavenly Wolf”), which was formed in the last years of Rakhimov’s reign, when it was clear to everyone that he would soon be demolished. By that time, Moscow was pressing hard on us, it took away a lot of things, and an organization appeared that began to defend the rights and interests of the Bashkir people.

I joined the organization in 2011, after Rakhimov was removed, and six months later I became deputy chairman of the organization. We considered ourselves Bashkir nationalists. In 2014, some members of the organization, including me, announced their withdrawal and formed a new organization “Bashkort” (the self-name of the Bashkirs). I became the first deputy chairman and was responsible for ideology. Although we were Bashkir nationalists, we supported federalism and the constitutional system of the Republic of Bashkortostan.

In 2020, we were recognized as extremists, because in six years “Bashkort” has become a very popular and strong organization. We opened 18 branches throughout the republic and one even beyond its borders, in the Chelyabinsk region. The organization included about 2-3 thousand people. Our group on the social network VKontakte had 60 thousand subscribers. We could easily gather several thousand guys in a couple of hours and held events involving many thousands. In 2017, when Putin announced the study of the state languages ​​of the national republics on a voluntary basis, we took about three thousand people onto the streets in Ufa in defense of the Bashkir language.

Such an organization was naturally dangerous for the authorities; since we were independent, we criticized the authorities. Nationalism in the Russian state has a very negative connotation. However, for us, a nationalist is the same as a patriot. We have never put our nation above others, we have never belittled other nations, we have never had any publications or statements on this matter, about the need to persecute others. When Bashkort was recognized as an extremist organization, absurd accusations were brought against us. Then the pressure on us began. Four of our guys were arrested, and their trial is still ongoing. They started following me too, and I was forced to leave.

You say that you are a nationalist, do you profess the ideas of pan-Turkism?

Pan-Turkism is an abstract movement. It is impossible to create a country that stretches from Turkey to Tatarstan or even to Yakutia. However, we are for the union of all Turkic states, actively maintained contacts with Kazakh nationalists and often show the sign at “Bozkurt” (“grey wolf”) rallies. I read that Moscow is trying to sow discord between the Tatars and Bashkirs.

Are there any contradictions between you and your national movements?

Bashkirs and Tatars are two very close and related peoples. We have a very large percentage of interethnic marriages. At some everyday level there are no problems. Problems begin at the ideological level, when our elites and scientists argue about history and cannot divide national heroes among themselves. In addition, we have a million Tatars living here. Let’s say they are asking for certain powers for themselves, for example, to declare Tatar the third state language, the Bashkirs do not want this.

All because on the territory of the Republic of Bashkortostan the Bashkir people exercised their right to self-determination. The Tatars exercised their right on the territory of the Republic of Tatarstan. If a Tatar from Bashkortostan finds it uncomfortable to live with us, he can always leave for Tatarstan. There he will be in his own environment. There he will have his own culture, his own language, music, songs, etc. A Russian, in turn, can leave for Voronezh, Orlov, etc. at any moment, but a Bashkir has nowhere to go.

Do Bashkirs understand Tatar?

We can communicate freely without an interpreter with each other. I recently arrived from Rome, and Rafis Kashapov (one of the leaders of the Tatar national movement) and I communicated with each other in our own way. We understand each other perfectly, but Moscow takes advantage of contradictions. You know, relatives always quarrel more strongly with each other than with distant friends. Moscow is trying to add fuel to the fire in these contradictions. Sometimes it protects some, turning them against others, sometimes vice versa. It is not beneficial for Moscow that friendly monolithic relations be established between the Bashkirs and Tatars.

Because Bashkortostan and Tatarstan are the two largest republics inside Russia, in the centre of Russia, two Muslim republics, with a Turkic component, although the Chuvash are also Turks and are also next to us, but they are more Russified. In addition, the national movements of the Bashkirs and Tatars are very strong. If these forces unite, it will pose a great threat to the Russian Federation.

The Bashkirs, unlike the Tatars, have not undergone Christianization, among whom there is even such a group as the Kryashens, that is, Tatars who profess Orthodoxy.

Yes. The tsarist policy of Christianization gained momentum when the Kazan Khanate fell. At that time, many Tatars were forcibly baptized. Do you know why so many Tatars live here? Because it was at that time that a huge number of Tatars fled to our lands. The Bashkirs had their own self-government, we lived quite freely and accepted Tatars who were close in faith and blood. In our country, when there were attempts at Christianization, we responded with uprisings and put an end to it.

In August 2020, mass protests took place in Bashkiria, which were one of the largest in Russia, when activists defended Mount Kushtau. In short, what was it and how did it all end?

I don’t know if it will be short enough to understand this story. We have four unique shihans that are not found anywhere in the world. What are shihans? Shikhan are the remains of coral reefs. Bashkortostan once had a sea 300 million years ago and reefs eventually grew into mountains. They are standing on a plain. You can find stones in these mountains, they are very beautiful. The largest mountain began to be dug back in Soviet times. A plant for the production of food water was built there because it is pure limestone, it is burned in a furnace and carbon dioxide is extracted from it and used in the production of baking soda.

The reserves of that mountain began to dry up in the late 2000s. The soda production plant turned its attention to the second Taratau Mountain, because under Soviet rule, factories were built at once with all these mountains in mind. These mountains are unique, as I said. There are a lot of species of flora listed in the Red Book, there is a whole nature reserve there, and by the way, they have the status of a nature reserve of the Republic of Bashkortostan.

Before Radiy Khabirov (the current head of Bashkortostan) there was Rustem Khamitov. He stated that while he was president, no one would touch this mountain and suggested, as an option, to look for alternative sources for raw materials, the existence of which, by the way, was also discussed by scientists. This is one of the reasons why Khamitov was removed and Khabirov was installed. Khabirov said that Mount Taratau will not be touched because it is really very beautiful, and not far from him, as he said, it is where his mother is buried. But he pointed to the Kushtau shihan.

The entire public of the country opposed it. That’s when the confrontation began. For two years, rallies, pickets, and igyn (traditional Bashkir gatherings) took place. By the way, one of the reasons why the Bashkort organization was banned in May 2020 was participation in these protests. In the summer of 2020, the active phase of development on Mount Kushtau was supposed to begin. Lumberjacks arrived there and equipment was brought in. We organized a camp there, round-the-clock protection, they tried to demolish our camp, riot police came. They cleared everything, captured the camp, but on the second day 10 thousand men gathered. They demolished all the barbed wires together with the riot police. This clash was filmed by the FSB from drones and the events were watched live in the Kremlin. As a result, Khabirov was told that he must negotiate so that this all does not result in a revolution. He came and said

So, the people won, which is very rare in Russia.

Yes.

Please tell me, was Bashkir activist Airat Dilmukhametov arrested in connection with the events in Kushtau?

Dilmukhametov is one of the leaders of the Bashkir national movement. He was arrested a little later. He was imprisoned twice on extremist charges, which were imposed on him by this government. The last time he was sentenced to 9 years for having a project called “The Fourth Republic”, where he proposed reformatting the Russian Federation on new contractual terms, when all subjects of the Russian Federation would negotiate among themselves without the participation of Moscow.

Before I left Bashkortostan, I continued Dilmukhametov’s project, but after February 24, we radically revised our views and realized that we did not need any federation and we announced that we would fight for the independence of Bashkortostan.

Do Bashkirs want independence now?

Mostly yes. Independence is a long-standing dream of the Bashkir people. The only people who don’t want it are those who have joined this government, hold some positions, or have a business affiliated with the government, so it is impossible to create a normal business in this country.

Infringement of the Bashkir language and the use of subsoil resources of Bashkortostan are probably the key reasons for the desire for independence?

Not only. When we had some kind of sovereignty in the 90s, we wrote history ourselves. Now, all textbooks go through censorship in Moscow. They study the history of the Bashkirs only from the moment the Bashkirs entered the Moscow state. Didn’t the Bashkirs have a history before 1554? We study such a compulsory subject as Russian literature, but there is no such subject as Bashkir literature. We study two foreign languages ​​for Bashkirs: Russian and any other without fail, but their native language is not required.

We are withdrawing theatrical performances that tell about the history of the Bashkirs. The Sterlitamak Bashkir Drama Theatre once staged a play based on historical events about a woman like Kisyabika. This Bashkir woman, who was burned because she, having been forcibly baptized, returned to her faith, to Islam.

In the 2000s, an exhibition about the Holodomor opened at the Bashkir State Museum. The fact is that the Soviet government organized a famine for the Bashkirs in 1921, when the Bashkirs lost almost half of their population. Then the Americans came to the aid of our people, they helped many, including the Bashkirs. They practically saved the Bashkirs. There was an exhibition in gratitude to the Americans, but after a call from Moscow it was closed.

After the start of Russian aggression, the authorities of Bashkortostan formed several battalions to participate in the war against Ukraine. How do the Bashkirs feel about this war?

I will tell you that not a single member of the Bashkort organization is participating in the war against Ukraine. Nevertheless, the Bashkirs, like all other peoples in the Russian Federation, were very susceptible to propaganda, but many people understand what is happening and do not support the war against Ukraine. You know, we have such a concept as “Bashkir” and “Bashkorts”. Bashkorts are Bashkirs who support the independence of the country, stand for freedom, for their people, and Bashkirs are those who are always for Moscow. Khabirov, the head of the Republic, is a Bashkir, he is a mankurt and is trying to curry favour with Moscow.

Unlike the Bashkirs, whose national hero is Salavat Yulaev , Khabirov has General Shaimuratov , who fought in World War II for the USSR, for the empire. Khabirov erected a huge monument in honor of him in the center of Ufa, spending several million and creating two battalions named after Shaimuratov and sending them to the war against Ukraine. He created the third battalion named after Alexander Dostavalov , which fought in Chechnya, and the fourth battalion named after Salavat Yulaev, which caused indignation among people.

In the Republic of Bashkortostan there is a policy of replacing our national heroes. All our national heroes are warriors who fought for the freedom of the Bashkirs. The two most famous: Salavat Yulaev and Zaki Validi. The name of Zaki Validi is now banned in the republic, and a dirty campaign has begun against Salavat Yulaev to discredit his name, allegedly he is a separatist, a robber, a troublemaker, and went against the authorities at that time.

There is an exaltation of the heroes who fought for the empire and the silence of those who fought against Russia.

Ruslan, please tell me, were there protests against mobilization in Bashkortostan, like in Dagestan, in Moscow?

There were many single pickets, but none like those in Dagestan. One of the reasons is that the Bashkir National Political Center (located in Lithuania), the Bashkir national movement, and elders explained that there was no point in taking to the streets like this. Well, the women came out, the man came out, they shouted, half the people were detained, half were fined, the names of the detainees were written down, as they say, they put a pencil on what this was for, it didn’t do any good. There was information noise and that’s it. We are betting that we need to preserve our strength so that they appear as little as possible, especially on the lists of the security officers, and leave once and for all.

The most famous Bashkir is probably the singer Zemfira, who became the voice of almost the entire protest part of Russia opposing the war. How do you and the Bashkir nationalists feel about it?

Well, firstly, Zemfira positions herself as a Tatar. Of course, she is respected in the Republic of Bashkortostan for her character and her position. However, we hold Yuri Shevchuk in higher esteem. He is half Bashkir, half Ukrainian. He grew up in Bashkortostan, dedicated songs to her, for example, the famous “White River,” and defended the shikhans.

Tell me, please, how likely is the collapse of Russia and what do you attribute it to: the death of Putin, the likelihood of his overthrow, or Russia’s defeat in the war in Ukraine?

Russia is a classic empire that lives by enslaving other peoples, foreign lands, and empires all end sooner or later. Russia collapsed twice in 1917, when Poland and Finland seceded from it, and in 1991 15 more national republics seceded from it. Now the time has come for it to completely fall apart. Russia is living out its last years. After all, nothing connects us Bashkirs with Russians, nothing connects Bashkortostan with Moscow, Yakutia or the Far East with the same St. Petersburg.

Many people living in Siberia have never been to Moscow; in Bashkortostan, many have never been to Moscow. Therefore, this empire is doomed and it would have lived for another 30-50 years if it had not made a fatal mistake by entering the war against Ukraine, which it would naturally lose. This will trigger the collapse of Russia. How this will happen is a thankless task to guess. Naturally this will happen as a result of defeat.

The only thing I’m afraid of is that if after Putin they give up Donbass and Crimea, they pay reparations, power will remain over the entire territory of Russia. Turn the Russian Federation into North Korea No. 2 and will bend. This could last another 100 years. That’s what I’m afraid of. However, I hope that it will fall apart. In any case, we will take advantage of the window of opportunity and declare our independence. We are ready for this, as are many other national republics.

You trust Russian oppositionists such as Navalny, Khodorkovsky and others. Do you think they will agree for the national republics to secede from the Russian Federation?

No, I don’t trust them at all. They are already saying that they are against the collapse of Russia. Some of them are against the national republics secession from the Russian Federation, some agree, but only through referendums that will be held according to the laws of Russia. They see themselves as the future rulers of Russia and announce their participation in negotiations with Western politicians and position themselves as an alternative to Putin. We, the Bashkirs, did not give them any authority to speak on behalf of Bashkortostan, just like the Tatars, Chechens, and so on.

All their statements already indicate that they want to preserve Russia, and this country is an empire and the thinking of the general mass of Russians, unfortunately, is imperial. They will always be against national republics becoming independent. Let’s take Khodorkovsky. This is the man who brought Putin to power. He was part of the club of oligarchs along with Berezovsky, Gusinsky, etc. They brought Putin to power, but thought that they would manage him, but he outplayed them. Milov from Navalny’s team (opposition politician in the Russian Federation) was in Putin’s government.

All these liberals today are the people who supported Yeltsin when he started the war with Chechnya. They turned a blind eye when they captured Transnistria, when the war began in Georgia. Therefore, we have no guarantees that Navalny will not degenerate into Putin-2. The Bashkirs signed an agreement with Russia three times and we were deceived three times and there is no guarantee that they will not be deceived a fourth time. I’m even sure that they will deceive me.

Therefore, we will not step on the old rake. In the future, when we all gain independence, 5-10 years later, after strengthening our state, it is quite possible to create something similar to the European Union. With common customs borders, create some kind of bloc of armed forces of equal states that will be formed in the post-Russian area. Perhaps there will be some kind of common currency, but without a common capital, imperial thinking.

Do you trust Garry Kasparov? He opposes in particular the annexation of Crimea.

This is exactly the same imperialist, who also speaks on behalf of all Russians.

And Ponomarev?

Ponomarev is a little closer than everyone else. Well, that’s it. You see, if Russia remains in this format, even if all the national republics leave, but remains completely in the state as it is, it will be an aggressive state in the future. The Russians must change their thinking, they must go through complete defeat. I fully believe that it is necessary to introduce external control over Russia, as it was over post-war Germany. Even the Germans had a very strong nostalgia for Hitler for 20 years, and the Imperials and Russians will have strong revengeful sentiments. Therefore, only the complete disintegration of Russia is necessary.

And my last question. What is the attitude of you, the Bashkirs, towards the Crimean Tatar people and the annexation of Crimea?

The Crimean Tatars are Turkic brothers for us, just like everyone else. I believe that the Crimean Tatars are the people who suffered the most from the Russian empire. I recently spoke with the head of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people, Refat Chubarov. We, of course, fully support the Crimean Tatar people. I believe that the Crimean Tatars are a people very close to us, and we all worry about them.

Asif Aliyev

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