Following the Forums of free peoples of post-Russia, I paid attention to the speeches of this woman – systematically logical and emotional at the same time. Since then I wanted to talk to her. Moreover, her position, which is announced before the speech, arouses great interest – deputy prime minister of Independent Tatarstan for national and religious issues. So, gentlemen, get used to such a question, such an agenda.
HOW AND WHEN THE GOVERNMENT OF INDEPENDENT TATARSTAN WAS FORMED
– Aido, tell me, please, how and when did your government appear?
– On December 20, 2008, a meeting of the Milli Mejlis of the Tatar people, the national parliament, was held, headed by its head, Fauzia Bayramova, a well-known activist with a strong anti-imperial position. It was still in Tatarstan. Due to all the existing circumstances – repression against the Tatar language, our identity, ongoing oppression, the desire to protect the rights and freedoms of the Tatar people – the participants of the Milli Mejlis decided to establish a government of the Tatar people in exile. But later, at an extended session, the name was changed to the Government of Tatarstan in exile. I can assume that such a designation was more correct from a legal point of view, since Tatars live in different regions of Russia: in the Astrakhan region, Siberia, and other places. And in this case, it was about the implementation of the decisions of the referendum on sovereignty, which was held within the borders of Tatarstan on March 21, 1992. Scientist Wil Mirzayanov was elected as the Prime Minister of this government (chemical scientist, publicist, who emigrated to the USA in 1995, works in Princeton; in 2020, he became especially famous in the world for his comments on the Soviet developments “Novichka”, – ed.) .
– I remember that in February of last year, Vil Sultanovych announced that he was resigning from this position.
– Yes, a meeting was held. On the very first day, Vil Mirzayanov said that he was submitting his credentials and proposed the candidacy of Rafis Kashapov, which was unanimously approved. He is also known to everyone as a true patriot, a fighter for his nation. We can say that he devoted his whole life to the restoration of Tatar statehood. His brother Nafis Kashapov, who is the deputy prime minister for sports, also works in our government. He conducts the most active work in Poland together with Ukrainians. And, by the way, Nafis Kashapov is a participant of the Maidan in Ukraine. In general, now is the moment when we need to unite, act more purposefully and, perhaps, even harshly. To organize something strong at the international level. Because the political agenda, the political situation in the world have now radically changed.
– I also know that Rafis Kashapov and you are members of the League of Free Nations (LFN). Can you tell us a little more about this association?
– LVN was organized last year, around the same time as the Forum of Free Peoples of Post-Russia. The League includes representatives of the occupied peoples of post-Russia or… Russia. Okay, let’s use this term as well. We represent our peoples, whose occupation by Russia has been going on for many years, centuries. We are active. At the moment, LVN has 13 representatives of nations. There are many people who want to join us. But there is a hard filter, because many agents want to penetrate this structure and destroy it from the inside. Therefore, the consideration at the level of national movements takes place first. Then these movements themselves propose their candidates for admission to the League of Free Nations. And only after such a filter of activists, the LVN is replenished. Thus, the League of Free Nations is also a movement for the decolonization and de-imperialization of Russia. What can I say – all nations want to get out from under the oppression of the Russian Empire. Everyone sees their future in an independent state. And we are all sure that we will be able to do it, even in spite of the small number of some peoples after centuries of extermination.
– But the Tatars in particular are a rather numerous people.
– We are still the second largest in Russia and are considered a large ethnic group. However, there are problems, which I have already briefly mentioned and will mention again. In any case, this thirst for independence, for freedom lives in all nations, and they are ready to fight. LVN unites us in this: we understand each other literally from half a word.
THE REFERENDUM ON THE SOVEREIGNTY OF TATARSTAN IS LEGIT AND VALID
– I remember how in the early 1990s my friends and I followed the struggle of Ichkeria and Tatarstan for independence… Can you tell our younger readers about those times?
– Then, at the beginning of the 90s, due to their despair and understanding that there is an opportunity to change something, the Tatars rose up to fight against Russian colonialism. The influence of the All-Tatar Public Center (PTOC), the Tatar national movement, on the Milli Mejlis was very great. Under their pressure, the Declaration on Sovereignty was adopted (August 30, 1990 – ed.). As a result of a political hunger strike supported by all the people and the creative intelligentsia, which lasted for 14 days, the session of the Verkhovna Rada of the Republic of Tatarstan on May 27, 1991 adopted a resolution to cancel the holding of official elections for the president of the Russian Federation on the territory of the Republic of Tatarstan. A referendum was also held (March 21, 1992 – ed.). Let me remind you that it was attended by foreign observers from democratic countries, including American politicians. And this happened thanks to the activities of the Ukrainian Trade Union Center and Tatar activists. Authoritative observers noted that everything was legal at the referendum. It was considered and is considered absolutely legitimate. Even today, we remind everyone that he is like that! Therefore, we do not need another referendum, which “good Russians”, “liberals”, “democrats” now want to impose on us… You can call them whatever you want, but these people are Russian imperialists who want to preserve the same “mother Russia” “, only with a more democratic facade. They have some influence in the world. And they had. In 1996, our representative Fauzia Bairamova came to Copenhagen, to the Human Rights Center of the Scandinavian countries, as part of the “March of Peace” organized together with representatives of the Chechen people. She called on the basis of the will of the people in the referendum to support the Declaration of Sovereignty, to support Tatarstan, as well as Ichkeria, in their aspirations for independence. But then Scandinavian human rights activists told us: “Don’t stop Yeltsin from building democracy.” She answered: “Democracy cannot exist in a country that does not recognize the rights of other nations. Now the front line passes through us, we suffer from Russia, and if you do not help us, do not stop it, then the front line will reach the borders of your countries.” The whole world saw later what kind of democracy Russia had. At the same time, neither Tatarstan nor Ichkeria gained international support. And now, indeed, the front line has not only come closer, but also runs across Europe – in Ukraine.
AS LONG AS SUCH AN AGGRESSIVE NEIGHBOR EXISTS, THERE WILL BE NO PEACE
– What is the current activity of the government of Tatarstan, created in 2008?
– Currently, we consider cooperation with international organizations to be the most important. Reporting the problems of the Tatar people and the people of Tatarstan to the UN, OSCE, PACE, Turkic countries. We write to these organizations – about genocide, about extermination. And now we manage to work at such an international level, which Tatarstan did not receive in the 1990s. Although there was active interaction with politicians of foreign countries, and many events related to Tatarstan were covered in the foreign media. But no more than that.
– It is very unfortunate if we remember the scale of the liberation movement of the early 1990s.
– And I will emphasize again: the manifestation of the will of the people of Tatarstan in the 1992 referendum was absolutely legitimate! Moreover, not only Tatars, but also other ethnic groups, some Russians also came out in support of sovereignty. There was an active movement, there was a desire. In general, it was the same rush during which the Union republics seceded and became independent countries. But then we did not receive the support of the world community. Given this experience, we now want to first enlist the support of international organizations and democratic countries. We need to dispel negative stereotypes about us. After all, all these years we have been represented in the international arena as savages – “Tatar-Mongols, savages, they will kill Russians!”. But let’s look at the events after 1991, at the Baltic States, where you are. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia – Russians are full citizens there. I predict that someone will say: “Well, these are European states.” OK, let’s look at Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, for example. There was also no aggression against the Russians. And there is no reason to believe that there will be anything negative in Tatarstan. And this is exactly the view they are trying to impose on the international community. But we, being in Europe, in the West, can lobby for our interests, talk about our problems and show our ability to negotiate. Also, if possible, we will organize some committees, commissions for cooperation with the legislative bodies of democratic countries. And, perhaps, even seek recognition of the independence of Tatarstan.
– What is the current situation in Tatarstan itself?
– Very difficult. Propaganda goes on for 25 hours out of the 24 that make up a day. A large part of the population is simply zombified. But not all! There are people who are against aggression. But they cannot express themselves now because of the level of repression. We can see this on the example of Tatar activists.
– Did it start after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine or after the start of mobilization?
Ukraine’s victory is in the decolonization, de-imperialization, and denuclearization of Russia. It must fall apart, it must not exist in its current form
– Now it has only intensified. But it was long before that. These people, activists, were engaged in defending their rights all their lives, and also opposed the imperial wars – in Ichkeria, Georgia, Syria, Ukraine. And all the last years they experienced colossal repression. Disappearance of people, searches, torture, arrests, rape. Everything was… In general, people are partly disoriented, partly frightened. The people now cannot simply leave suddenly, with the snap of fingers, after many years of destruction of self-awareness, identity, desire for independence. The Russian Empire and the Kremlin must weaken. The process is currently ongoing, but it is not yet the peak… We understand that Ukraine’s victory is our victory, we fully support Ukraine. Of course, we condemn this terrorist war. But the victory will not end only with the expulsion of Russian troops from Ukraine, with the return of Crimea. Ukraine’s victory is in the decolonization, de-imperialization, and denuclearization of Russia. It must fall apart, it must not exist in its current form. As long as there is such a neighbor – an aggressive, totalitarian, absolutely terrorist regime – no state will have a sense of peace, peace, an opportunity to build a perspective for the future.
WHEN TELLING ABOUT TATARSTAN, WE OVERCOME NUMEROUS STEREOTYPES
– In Russia, an imperial law has been in effect for several years, according to which the study of languages in the national republics has ceased to be mandatory. How does this affect the situation?
If 600,000 Tatars disappeared in 10 years, this is actually genocide
– If we look at the growth statistics, 1 million people stopped speaking Tatar in 10 years. This is more than a lot. Over the past 20 years, 2 million have stopped speaking the Tatar language. According to the official data of Rosstat, which were published in 2023, a total of 600 thousand Tatars have disappeared in Russia. Many criticize these data, Russian statistics in general. Apparently, there is a reason. But such indicators should be taken quite seriously. If 600,000 Tatars disappeared in 10 years, this is actually genocide. This is a significant indicator even for a large ethnic group. Not to mention the Tatars.
– Really, alarming numbers.
– On the basis of this, you can already write to the UN, to other authorities, since these are official data. This is fixed and we are focusing on it.
– How difficult is it for you to conduct outreach work with European and Western partners? I know from my experience that they often have a Moscow-centric view.
– I absolutely agree with you. We faced this – me, my family (we now live in Sweden). This is a very relevant remark for the Scandinavian countries, because previously they had little interaction with the Turkic world. Therefore, we were often treated as marginals. But after we start communicating, working together, understanding comes, and the attitude towards us changes. But at first, if you simply say: “I am a Tatar from Tatarstan”, no one will understand what is being said. What it is? Some small, distant piece of the Earth… And in terms of self-identification, everyone thinks: if you are from Russia, then you are Russian. This has to be overcome. Then, after communication, a person begins to understand what a “Tatar from Tatarstan” is. Another stage is coming. Interested, the interlocutor looks for information, Googles. Starts viewing photos. So what? Photos from present-day Tatarstan, Kazan are quite attractive in themselves. The city is developed, they think, so everything is fine. But these are only pictures, the cover! And you need to know and understand what is behind it. The authorities in Moscow – the Tatarstan leadership is collaborative, absolutely pro-Kremlin. And also – totalitarianism, repression, propaganda… We have to explain everything again. But this is all important, useful educational work that has prospects. When people communicate, get to know each other, learn something about our history and culture, they change their perception, feel the level. And then the stereotypes about some murderers and looters of the “yoke of the Horde” begin to disappear.
THERE SHOULD NOT BE A DE-FACTO CONTINUATION OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE
– Do such stereotypes come from ignorance or are they also planted?
In the Russian Federation, it is necessary to completely change the system, self-awareness. Including absolutely racist, racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic guidelines of society
– Unfortunately, we are often portrayed that way by representatives of the Russian public. Including Moscow’s, let’s say, liberals who, perhaps, did not go beyond the third traffic ring, beyond Moscow. They generally do not know how Russia lives, its regions, the peoples that exist in it. And if they went somewhere, their route in big cities: airport – hotel, hotel – airport. But it is impossible to understand the country like this and it is impossible to plan anything in it. Now they propose to build some kind of “beautiful Russia of the future”. It is impossible! I repeat, the country needs to completely change the system, self-awareness. Including absolutely racist, racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic guidelines of society. All this needs to be worked and worked with. In the de facto continuation of the Russian Empire, this cannot be changed. When such a state of affairs exists, it promotes and will promote self-reproduction.
– What is your opinion about the role of the peoples of the Russian Federation in the Russian-Ukrainian war that is currently being fought?
The mobilization announced in Russia actually becomes a continuation of the policy of genocide against peoples captured by the empire
– I had to hear how the imperial aggression against Ukraine is called not just an invasion, but also compared to the “yoke of the Horde”. The mention of this “horde” confuses the issue, shifts the responsibility from imperial Russian chauvinism to the conquered peoples. It seems that this is not a continuation of the invading Russian tradition, but a legacy of the influence that the horde once had on the Russians. Furthermore, such aggressive actions are sometimes associated mainly with Turkic and other conquered peoples. It is wrong. So, among those who are fighting against Ukraine, there are many representatives of different peoples: Tatars, Buryats, Chechens, and others. But all this is organized and directed by Moscow, the Russian Empire. What is most despicable – by the hands and blood of other previously conquered peoples. Thus, the mobilization announced in Russia actually becomes a continuation of the genocidal policy against the peoples captured by the empire and already largely exterminated by it…
A person who has Tatar self-awareness will not take part in this war of aggression of the Russian Federation
I would like to emphasize that what I said does not mean at all that I am defending those people who went to war, where Ukrainians are being killed. This is absolutely unacceptable! We want to stop it. I can talk about my people. Tatars who go there for mobilization and especially for a contract… I don’t consider them Tatars at all. They do not have Tatar self-awareness. Yes, they may be like that on a first and last name basis, but nothing more. A person who has Tatar self-awareness will not take part in this war of aggression. Anything, but not this: she will escape from the mobilization or go to prison. Please note that in many videos filmed by Ukrainian journalists, such prisoners initially answered the first question: “I am a Russian…”. And only then: “Oh, well, I’m not Russian, I’m Tatar.” And this is indicative, such people cannot be classified as Tatars.
YEAR OF EXISTENCE OF THE FORUM OF THE FREE NATIONS OF POSTROSIA – ACHIEVEMENTS
– Your words are similar to those that I heard from people loyal to the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. They say – don’t confuse Chechens and Kadyrovs… And in conclusion, can you say a few words about the 6th Forum of Free Peoples of Post-Russia, which was recently held in three US cities: Washington, Philadelphia, New York?
– It was a very important event. Since this time I participated online, I will not be able to tell you the details. But even I felt all the adrenaline of the participants, all the atmosphere that developed at the events. It changed just through the screen. I wanted this Forum to be not the culmination (America is a strong country, a strong ally), but the beginning of a fundamental change in the attitude towards the liberation movement of our peoples. At the beginning, providing some kind of help to us – moral, political and maybe even material. Why am I talking about this…
– Regarding financial assistance?
– So. Because all the Kremlin media have already said that we have received grants and have already distributed them. As Vadym Shtepa (participant of the Forum, political emigrant, editor-in-chief of the “Region. Expert” project – ed.) said, “I would also like to look at these grants.” In fact, we do not have any help – neither political nor financial. At the same time, we are waging a difficult political struggle in emigration.
Returning to the Forum. A lot has been done in less than a year of its existence. And the fact that we could get together and work in the USA is important. A speech at the Hudson Institute, which is an authoritative think tank, the signing of the Freedom Charter at the Philadelphia City Hall, greetings from the deputy governor of the state, members of the city council, a speech at the Ukrainian Institute in New York. This is all an achievement for us, representatives of the peoples enslaved by the Russian Empire, and recognition of the importance of our struggle for freedom. As I have already said, for many years we did not have the opportunity to speak, speak, represent our peoples at a high level, as now. Let me remind you that the previous forum was held in Brussels, in the European Parliament. This one is in America. In the coming months, it is planned to hold regular meetings of the Forum of Free Peoples of Post-Russia in other important democratic countries of the world. And this is all a very big achievement for us.
– What changes do you see from Forum to Forum?
– The more, the more the participants do not just talk about the problems of their peoples, in many ways they are similar – the destruction of language, culture, identity, genocide. They already offer some options for solutions, ways out of problems. Representatives of national movements do not sit still, they act, develop plans, make contacts, and seek support. At the same time, a clearer picture of our future independent countries is being formed: how it can be, where to get the initial funds, how to implement it all… At the same time, we as peoples, as regions of post-Soviet Russia, really need a political decision to be made on the issue of decolonization, deimperialization Russia, so that there would be help for us, the indigenous peoples of the spaces occupied by Russia. After all, changes will not happen by themselves, they are the fruits of hard work… Therefore, we are extremely grateful to the organizers of these Forums, who contribute to the coordination and systematicity of such activities.
Oleg Kudrin, Riga
Photo from the archive of Aida Abdrakhmanova
Укрінформ
