– Oleg, the Anti-Imperial Block of Nations, as I understand it, is the successor of the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations?
– Yes, it is. We didn’t even change the abbreviation. In both cases, the ABN remains – both the Anti-Bolshevik and the Anti-Imperial Block of Nations. The anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations considered Bolshevik Russia to be a continuation of the Tsarist Empire and the Muscovite Empire.
It is also worth clarifying the name “Russian Federation”. I always use the prefix “the so-called Russian Federation”, because this is an artificial entity, it is the Russian, or even the Moscow Empire. It is important to understand that this concept has not disappeared anywhere. Starting from the Moscow Ulus (kingdom) of the Golden Horde, then the Romanov Empire, with stolen history and a falsified past, up to the Bolshevik Empire, which was the same “prison of nations”, with genocides, with repressions, with the conquest of territories and the enslavement of other Nations.
When the Second World War was battling on, it was clear that the winner would be either the Nazi regime or the Bolshevik regime. Everything was progressing to the point that the latter regime, with the support of the allies, would win.
Already in 1943, the OUN convened the First Conference of Enslaved Nations in Volyn. It took place on the territory of Ukraine, but the representation was very broad, and Ukrainians were not in the majority there. After all, there were Georgians, Azerbaijanis, Belarusians, Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Circassians and representatives of other enslaved Nations. The conference was held with the aim of agreeing on the national liberation struggle from the perspective of confronting the Bolshevik empire. In the end, the USSR won the war and then conquered not only these nations, but also the countries of the so-called Warsaw Pact, that is, almost half of Europe and Asia, and after the conquest, they began to plant their imperial communist ideology. At that time ABN became both a barrier and a sword against the Bolshevik empire.
Of course, from the height of time, one should not exaggerate that the ABN became a key factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union. But all the efforts of the ABN leaders and their international cooperation helped to push this “cob on clay legs” that scattered.
– Yaroslav Stetsko, the Head of the Ukrainian National Liberation Front at the time, worked not only with enslaved nations, he also worked through the OUN, in particular, in Afghanistan and Taiwan. That means it was not some cabinet organization.
– Absolutely not. We are talking about a huge worldwide network that coordinated its actions with the World Anti-Communist League, which united virtually all the countries of the world that stood on an anti-communist platform. The same example of Taiwan is very revealing. ABN had its diplomatic representation there. Yaroslav Stetsko made several visits there together with Mrs. Slava Stetsko.
I often simulate such a situation – imagine that Yaroslav Stetsko flies to Taipei in 1981, or, say, to Washington, and declares: “In 10 years, the Soviet Union will disintegrate.” How would Yaroslav Stetsko react to such statements? Strange, to say the least. Well, how can such a “machine”, with such great power, with atomic weapons, with a powerful influence on world politics, fall apart? Yaroslav Stetsko and other leading figures of the OUN were sure of this. Because they understood the artificial nature of the formation of the USSR.
Secondly, they knew about the serious desire of the enslaved nations for national liberation, the desire to throw off this imperial oppression, the oppression of Russian fascism. All the conditions just needed to be met.
It’s the same now when we come to Europe and say: “In 10 years, the so-called Russian Federation, or the Moscow Empire, will fall apart.” Also, not everyone perceives it as an adequate forecast or as a probable model of the development of the situation. But we, like our predecessors, firmly believe in such a scenario!
– Then there was an attractive international situation. We were lucky that Margaret Thatcher appeared, who listened to both Ukrainians and enslaved Nations. These were certain British international interests. Ronald Reagan also appeared, meeting with the Ukrainian diaspora and political emigration. He also heard in time and wisely used the international situation, understanding the aspirations of other nations. Because every state has its own interests. Directing all of this toward a common goal gave a positive result. And, obviously, this also sets an example for today.
– Absolutely. Moreover, there was a big difference – at that time, Ukraine was an object of international politics. Now, especially during this war, given the heroic resistance of the Ukrainian people, we have become a subject. We influence global international processes. Our task is to transfer this historical burden. To show that this is a process of struggle against the empire, which remains the empire of evil, the enslaver of the same Chechens, Ingush, Circassians, Tatars, Bashkirs, Oirat-Kalmyks and Erzyans.
By the way, repressions against the Erzyan national liberation movement took place recently in Russia. Several almost 90-year-old activists were arrested, and the FSB mocked them, interrogated them for asserting their right to national self-determination and self-identity.
Therefore, now, considering that Ukraine is the subject of international politics, this is our key task – to convey information to our international partners.
There are politicians who come to Ukraine today and say that Russia should not be destroyed because there are threats. Yes, there have always been threats, there are threats now, unequivocally. But there is a precedent. We should think about repeating this precedent.
In 1991, the entire world community believed that the empire had collapsed – the Soviet Union had disappeared from the political map of the world. And now we need to democratize Russia. But the world did not understand that it is impossible to democratize Russia. Muscovy and democracy are two absolutely opposite and incompatible concepts.
There were clear markers. It all started in Chechnya. Ukraine then did a lot so that the voice of free Ichkeria could be heard throughout the world. However, the world believed that this was an internal Russian conflict, and then swallowed this aggression: the destruction of Grozny, the genocide against the Chechens, the murder of their leaders…
There was also Transnistria, the same with Abkhazia, Ossetia and so on. Already then, Russia began to go beyond its territorial boundaries.
Then came 2008, and everything was happening according to what the Ukrainian nationalists had warned about: the empire was not disappearing at that moment, it was just taking a break to gather its strength and stockpile weapons.
– Yes. Russia stormed inside the empire, suppressed local liberation movements. Then she went outside.
– Russia has created a “collective Putin”. It is a big mistake to say that only Putin is bad, and when Putin is gone, everything will change. Some experts claim that Putin has been lying in the morgue for several weeks, but the problem is not where Putin will lie: in a mausoleum, in a morgue, or whether he will sit in a bunker. This is an empire. Another Putin will come, ras-Putin, two-Putin, three-Putin, but the threat will remain.
This should be understood by the whole civilized world. The Anti-Imperial Bloc of Peoples, as a successor to the cause of the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations, conveys to world leaders the opinion that only the collapse of the Moscow Empire will be a guarantee of security for all.
The Anti-imperial Block of Nations started its active work literally six months ago. Since the beginning of summer, we have launched a powerful information project. This is the ABN website (https://abn.org.uauk). It has a Telegram channel (https://t.me/ABN_Freedom_for_Nations), a Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/ABN.FreedomForNations) and a Facebook group (https://www.facebook. com/groups/ABN.Antyimperiya), where we distribute our materials.
We deliberately maintain the site in three languages: Ukrainian (for Ukrainian society and the Ukrainian diaspora), English (to convey information through our structures in different countries of the world), and Russian, an enemy language (so that the people enslaved by Muscovy can read and know this truth).
We have some poorly educated “hoorah-patriots” who sometimes ask: why do you make broadcasts or posts in Russian? In order for the Russian-speaking audience to read us. Because they don’t understand our language, and we have to influence them with their language. If we just close ourselves in our “bubble”, we will lose. We must make an ideological, spiritual, and civilizational expansion there, otherwise, the Russian Federation will not collapse.
– Oleg, currently you represent the Anti-Imperial Block of Nations. Tell us about today’s work of ABN.
– History repeats itself, it is cyclical. In 1943, it was on the initiative of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (Bandera movement) that the ABN was established. On November 20-21, we will celebrate the 80th anniversary of ABN, we plan to hold academic conferences in the capital, on the basis of the Kyiv National University named after Taras Shevchenko, and in the Rivne Region, on the basis of the Ostrozka Academy.
In 2023, ABN, now the Anti-Imperial Block of Nations, was also revived precisely at the initiative of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (Banderites). This is a corresponding decision of the Grand Assembly of the OUN (b).
As I already mentioned, we started with an information resource – the ABN website. The next step is to gather national deputies of Ukraine and representatives of nations enslaved by the Russian Empire in the Stepan Bandera National Revival Centre. Many of them came from abroad because some of them are in exile. The meeting was attended by Sires Bolyaen-Inyazor of the Erzyan people, Volodymyr Dovdanov – deputy chairman of the Congress of the Council of the Oirat-Kalmyk people, with whom the OUN (b) signed a Memorandum of Cooperation, representatives of the North Caucasus – Chechens, Ingush, Dagestanis, and Vladyslav Amosov – one of the co-founders of the Siberian Battalion, a representative of Sakha-Yakutia
Now the Siberian Battalion has been formed in the ranks of the International Battalion, as part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. At the beginning of the war, Vladyslav Ammosov came to Ukraine and said: “I want to fight for Ukraine! I am a Yakut and I do not want to be in the unit of the so-called “good Russians”, but I want to form a battalion of soldiers who will represent the indigenous nations of my land.” There are many such people, among the Yakuts, among the Bashkortostans and among the Buryats, who want to fight in the ranks of our army. I think it is a very big plus that our military leadership and intelligence have gone to meet such proposals. Already today, the Siberian Battalion began to operate as a separate unit within the International Battalion, and ABN, through the Defense Fund of Ukraine, will support its struggle.
Next will be the Turkic battalion, the battalions of the nations of the North Caucasus, in addition to the fact that there are already units of Sheikh Mansur and Dzhokhar Dudayev, in the end, the same regiment of Kalinovsky in the format of the anti-imperial struggle for the liberation of brotherly Belarus. Everything came together here. Therefore, the first practical case is armed units that will become a model for national liberation armies. They will later transfer this struggle to their territories and, with the help of Ukraine and the entire civilized world, will fight for their right to self-determination.
The second point is political. After our first meeting with representatives of enslaved peoples, very important events also took place in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. At the legislative level, a Temporary Special Deputy Commission was created, which actually prepares proposals for Ukrainian legislation to support the struggle of enslaved peoples. On the initiative of people’s deputies, in particular, Yaroslav Yurchyshyn, who became the chairman of this commission, Volodymyr Vyatrovych, who is the secretary of the commission, Oleg Dunda, who heads the inter-factional parliamentary association “For the collapse of Russia”, such a deputy commission is being formed together with experts, where ABN representatives also entered, in order to work out the necessary state steps at a fast pace.
– Yes, it is very important, because it is called a strategy. After all, when the time “x” comes, we must be ready. Not only with fists, not only with brains but also with papers. Because today’s world is a procedural world, and these pieces of paper must be implemented, and then they will have an impact on the processes we are talking about.
– I agree. I am very happy that there is already such a decision, that the commission is actively working. We have many practical cases and an understanding of how it should be built.
The third point. Just within these days, one of the most important projects of the restored ABN, which is called “University of Free Nations”, will be launched. That is, Ukrainian experts, statesmen, lawyers, historians and specialists in specific disciplines will teach representatives of enslaved nations about state creation. On the basis of the University, we will teach how to fight for independence, and discuss cases of our national liberation struggle.
So, even in such a short period, we have a good result. For the future, we set ourselves the task of convening the same large representative Conference, as Yaroslav Stetsko did, as Slava Stetsko and our other outstanding predecessors did.
– Like a political conference?
– Yes. In order to produce an effective superstructure and jointly develop a strategy of struggle. We are not talking about formalization, but about the fact that it is necessary to move this matter carefully, step by step. After all, Ukraine, enslaved nations and the entire civilized world must be ready for a possible scenario of the disintegration of the Moscow Empire.
– We recently recorded a programme about the Green Wedge. I addressed the Ukrainians and representatives of other nations living there: “You should not be near Moscow. You have a rich, big land. Prepare for independence.”
– Maybe someone will think that we are fantasizing. That we share the skin of a bear that has not yet been killed. However, we are just preparing for possible developments. If we talk about the Far East, we have a very good ally. This is certainly not imperial China. This is Japan, which also has islands annexed and taken by Moscow. Japan wants them back and wants to increase its influence there.
– We must not forget that the processes taking place today between Russia and Ukraine have influenced Japan’s militarization. Despite its Constitution, it is building up its military power.
– Yes. And if the 8th Forum of Free Nations of Post-Russia took place in Europe, then the previous 7th Forum took place in Tokyo. It is directly in the Japanese parliament. It was attended by Japanese parliamentarians who understand their interests very clearly and are ready to conduct an internationally coordinated policy together with Ukraine, together with representatives of enslaved nations. This direction of cooperation is very interesting and promising.
At one time, even before the Second World War, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists worked very actively in search of international partners. One of these partners was also Japan. At that time, as the researchers write, two options were considered for Japan’s entry into the war. The option we all know won. There was a second land front when Japan had to enter these disputed territories through Manchuria and open a second land front for the Soviet Union, for Bolshevik Russia, and this is exactly the scenario supported by the Leader of the OUN Yevhen Konovalets, establishing relations with the Japanese government, but, unfortunately, that did not happen.
But in modern times, we are renewing this cooperation in order to equip such a seemingly great and formidable Russian empire from various sides. Because at one time it collected a lot of pieces from different states.
We do not forget about the existence of the Chinese factor. It is very influential but very different. This is not about the freedom of nations, not about the freedom of a person, unequivocally. But this factor will certainly appear when the imperial Moscow structure is shaken.
Therefore, Ukraine really needs to be clearly prepared for what we do, how we do it, and who we support. The principle of ABN “Freedom for Nations! Freedom for the Individual!” should be the key, basic, real cornerstone in the liberation struggle. Ukraine, being a promoter, has always recognized the right of other nations to create their own national state.
– We are an example that the war is no longer between two players. Even small local wars always draw neighbouring states into the circle of interest. The modern world has changed, and it must be taken into account, including the direction of the liberation struggle against the Russian Federation.
– Therefore, we want to convey to the civilized world the position, that it is better to support the liberation struggle here and now. Already today, it is necessary to bet precisely on the liberating and just national struggle of the enslaved nations, so as not to get an expanded version of the Chinese Empire instead of the Russian Empire. This is also very important to take into account.
– Having killed a dragon, we must not give birth to another dragon. Are you analyzing the background? We know about the liberation movement in Tatarstan, which is currently underground, but it is very powerful and has support among the Tatars. What is the current situation in other republics? For example, in the North Caucasus, in Buryatia, and in Kalmykia. Is there a political underground, public interest?
– We have internal analysis, we monitor available information resources daily, follow the situation in the republics of the so-called Russian Federation. For example, the North Caucasus is an environment where the situation can explode at any moment. We remember all previous attempts at national liberation struggle. The Chechen people have always been determined to fight for their national liberation. However, the issue of “collective Kadyrov” and “collective Putin” is present.
But a completely unexpected reason can arise, any event, as, for example, in Dagestan, religious intolerance and anti-Semitism, which will become a point of no return.
– How critical is everything? I had a hidden officer of the Special Operations Forces visiting from Europe, a representative of the Ingush political emigration. They say that if processes start now, these processes will be suppressed very quickly. If we don’t intervene, we don’t give money, we don’t give weapons, we don’t give instructors, if we don’t go there through our underground, then without us, without our support, the uprising will not happen.
– Kadyrov’s example is very telling, it is talked about a lot. But in Dagestan, in Ingushetia, and in other regions of the North Caucasus, national repression took place, unfortunately. Moreover, these Muscovites imperially bought their so-called current political elites. Even when we talk about Tatarstan. They simply gave the people’s national wealth for ransom. The rulers of the republics became millionaires and oligarchs. Accordingly, it is now such a factor as to hold back the national liberation struggle.
Moreover, in Islamic Tatarstan, the “Russian peace” is actively developing in the format of the Russian Orthodox Church, which is a pseudo-religious unit of the FSB. Huge temples are being built there (although it is difficult to call them churches), and such religious buildings, are filled with creeping Moscow propaganda.
Therefore, to be honest, are the enslaved peoples on the ground ready for a national uprising? No, not ready. By the way, they tried to provoke them during the infamous Prigozhin raid. But who will go? Who will take up the weapon?
Currently, the enslaved nations are not yet ready for a full-scale national liberation revolution. However, the processes continue, because they are a natural organic path of the national struggle for independence.
– The Ukrainian government should form a real strategy. Because in the future transformation of continental politics, we can lose our place in the world security system, in the Eurasian security system, if we do not model the situations that may arise, if we are not prepared for different development scenarios, and thus we will not be able to master whether even lead these processes.
– So. It is the representatives of the enslaved peoples who offer Ukraine the primacy in these processes. Ukraine should become the centre of gravity to which other free nations will gravitate. We need to develop this policy here and now, implement it and not be afraid. We have nothing to fear in conditions of war.
We are convinced, we believe and we are working on it so that Ukraine wins this war, so that Moscow’s “prison of nations” collapses, and in its place, independent states of free nations appear!
